[mtinmwv]

Nice site, here is a suggestion that I hope will improve it for all.

How about more information regarding the contents of the "Files" postings. Unless you already know, it is difficult and time consuming to determine if a file can help your current situation.

My original motivation for this suggestion was not directly motivated by the postings of this site. At least here there is some information about the file posted with it. However, I feel that more information would be better for all.

Some of my original posting elsewhere is below. Note that some of what I'm asking for is already done, so all the comments are not specifically critical this site, just looking for a little informal, standardized documentation.
=================

Could it be mandatory that file postings be required to include more information like a description of what it is, fixes, enhances or just what it does? How about a link to the thread that does explain or discuss it or the problems it fixes? How about more information to identify the file? "main.pgm" or "*_factory_Bin_File.zip" does not tell me much.

Without a real comment or link to a thread with the answer or a search function within the forum, a lot of the posts are beyond frustrating in trying to determining if they are correct to install. I for one am not going to install something with no comments or a comment like "NOT tested by me" and nothing else. I don't care what the file name implies.

Please - remember that all of us were once ignorant of all the subtile details of fta (a lot of us still are).


Proposed format straw-man (poke holes, pull apart, add more, ...):

Filename: published name
Revision: as reported by the file contents (one posting was "1007" but reported "0105")
Date: time stamp of the file (internal reported preferred)
Source: if appropriate
Fixes: what problems/bugs are fixed (include links to forums if any)
Compatibility: what units/configurations it is for
Restrictions: conditions or configurations that should be avoided
Comments: anything else that could be of interest like new features, GUI/Menu changes, ... (include links to forums if any)
????: anything else??

[flamarket]

good post 100%

[majestik]

Originally Posted by mtinmwv

How about more information regarding the contents of the "Files" postings. Unless you already know, it is difficult and time consuming to determine if a file can help your current situation.
...

Filename: published name
Revision: as reported by the file contents (one posting was "1007" but reported "0105")
Date: time stamp of the file (internal reported preferred)
Source: if appropriate
Fixes: what problems/bugs are fixed (include links to forums if any)
Compatibility: what units/configurations it is for
Restrictions: conditions or configurations that should be avoided
Comments: anything else that could be of interest like new features, GUI/Menu changes, ... (include links to forums if any)
????: anything else??

Please note that on this site, files are located within a category of the make and model of the receiver, hence, no need to wast time on additional information.

Utilities listed in a general category are provided with basic information about the file and what is should be used for.

Good thinking tho..

Happy new year and welcome to aaafta.com, enjoy your stay

[barry#15]

the files are like this already when there posted here

[mtinmwv]

Originally Posted by majestik

Please note that on this site, files are located within a category of the make and model of the receiver, hence, no need to wast time on additional information.

On this point I have to differ because it is the main reason for my post.

It is a waste of time only if the audience has all of the "knowledge". This is a very friendly site and more information is not a waste, it is a life saver for non-expert who is trying to make sense of it and not destroy his equipment.

For example, looking at the VS9000HD file, which is the unit I have, the following file posts I feel do not have enough information:

http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...-loop-fix.html
This states what it is and restrictions but that's all.

http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...-bin-file.html
This is a good example of "which one". I know of at least three versions! Which one is this? What is it used for?

http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...-sat-file.html
This one has the most information somewhere in the posting.

Also I found a few others that further make my point:

http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...ory-files.html
http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...sat-ultra.html
http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...tory-file.html


Please try to look at this like you did the first weeks of your fta experience. Yes - some of the information will be redundant, but not for those who do not "know". If I were to take you into my field of expertise, I am sure that I could easily lose you with stuff that my other peers would see as obvious. When documenting, I try to go by this rule: "make it obvious to one who is mildly skilled in the art". You will not lose anyone since the experts already know how to skip over and the ignorant will gain the knowledge. I have wasted more time filling in details I missed than the time it would have taken to include them.

[majestik]

Originally Posted by mtinmwv

On this point I have to differ because it is the main reason for my post.

Please try to look at this like you did the first weeks of your fta experience. Yes - some of the information will be redundant, but not for those who do not "know".

As i stated in my post "Good Thinking", means exactly that, good thinking
As the mods trying to post new files for everyone, the files are posted in their respective categories.
As per other utilities, like the ones you mentioned...
If someone needs to use any of these advanced files, the starting assumption is that "they do not know", hence, they were given instructions by a mod or helper to "use this file".

I agree on the point that more information posted along with the file will result in less questions by the "in-between" users, the ones that know enough to do it themselves with minimal external help.

If you read through the forums, you will notice that woodcreeker has done many stickys with attached packages as per member's requests.
When there is a question about the validity of a file or the version of a file, it should be brought up as a question in the forum.
Many files are updated regularly, some are outdated as they are not supported by their maker anymore...

I'm sure that once this current ECM we are experiencing, will be resolved, the mods will have much time to get back to their stickys, reviews and site maintenance.

[DISHBABY]

This is not to OFFEND!

If you are a newbie to FTA! You must read first!!

I have only been in this hobbie for 2 months!

I have not had to ask one question, and I have two differnt boxes.

Captiveworks CW800-S
SonicView SV4000

There is no there way to learn this, other than to READ READ READ.

Everyone here unless they have a friend to help had to read.

It will be amazing how much you will learn if you READ!
This was the first thing that I learned when I started this HOBBIE.

The people on these sites are looking for specific information for there box! they don't need the forums cluttered with questions, that if one had read they would have known.
Sometimes you need to visit several forums before you find the answer your looking for.

Thank you!

[majestik]

Originally Posted by DISHBABY

This is not to OFFEND!

If you are a newbie to FTA! You must read first!!

I have only been in this hobbie for 2 months!

I have not had to ask one question, and I have two differnt boxes.

Captiveworks CW800-S
SonicView SV4000

There is no there way to learn this, other than to READ READ READ.

Everyone here unless they have a friend to help had to read.

It will be amazing how much you will learn if you READ!
This was the first thing that I learned when I started this HOBBIE.

Dishbaby,
you are 100% correct...
If someone is offended by critic, they have no place in an open forum, so i don't think anyone is/will be offended by your comments

second, you nailed it right on the head... READ, READ and then READ some more...

i can not stress it enough to anyone who is just starting... the more you read, the more you'll know.. and if it wasn't addressed yet, everyone here will be happy to help you with it

The makers of these boxes made them so easy to operate, that all it takes is a few minutes of reading, few minutes of downloading, and a few minutes of updating the box...

"READ, READ, READ..." this should be a thread on it's own

Happy new year everyone...

[mtinmwv]

Originally Posted by majestik

I agree on the point that more information posted along with the file will result in less questions by the "in-between" users, the ones that know enough to do it themselves with minimal external help.

If you read through the forums, you will notice that woodcreeker has done many stickys with attached packages as per member's requests.
When there is a question about the validity of a file or the version of a file, it should be brought up as a question in the forum.
Many files are updated regularly, some are outdated as they are not supported by their maker anymore...

I am not beating up on the posters, just trying to get more information where it belongs and reduce the Q&A chatter. As I originally stated, this site is by far the best for organization and posting information. Suggestion attempts at other sites have run head on into some big egos that I care not to deal with.

Somehow I feel that the message here has been lost in the details. The best example of what I am trying to eliminate or avoid is shown by the following post:

http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...-bin-file.html

If you look at this post it tells you only one thing: the filename (link). The rest of the comments can be deduced from the path and title.

Now, how about the rest of the information?

Revision: ??
Date: ??
Fixes: ??
Features: ??
...

There is no way I would install this file under any circumstance. I need more information to really know that it will beneficial (yes, I am very picky).

As it turns out, with the help of "sum", I am quite confident that this file is the "0100" Factory file (aka Rev 1.0). Since I already have the "0105" (aka Rev 1.5) version installed, I would not want to go backwards (Rev 1.5 fixed motor problems).

Can you see where I am going and how I am trying to improve the experience for the silent ones (which I have been for the past five months)? In the end they will become our experts of the future or will just give up and quit.

As for woodcreeker, I have found him to one of the best posters. In no way am I beating up on him or any other poster here - just trying to find a better way. My suggestion is not "all or none", just an attempt to start a dialog.

In the past I have found the best way to deal with technocrats, geeks and hackers (I is one!) is to give them a rule, let them grouse for a while, watch them improve it and in the end see them agree on how it was a good decision "they" made. Things are better for it.

PS: before posting this I was in a PM with another of this sites gurus attempting to find the best way to post suggestions without getting blocked, locked, or beaten up. I really want to see this forum rise to the top.

[mtinmwv]

Originally Posted by DISHBABY

This is not to OFFEND!

You did.

If you are a newbie to FTA! You must read first!!

I have only been in this hobbie for 2 months!
...
There is no there way to learn this, other than to READ READ READ.
...
It will be amazing how much you will learn if you READ!
This was the first thing that I learned when I started this HOBBIE.

I consider myself a very new member of this community. I have been monitoring and joining ten forums (not counting duplicates or aliases) for over five months now. I have logged in excess of 300 hours plowing through all of this. I purchased my first unit early in October.

Yes, I am new.
Yes, I have read.
Yes, I have found the information to be expert friendly.

No, you do not know how many others are reluctant to suggest improvements just because of what you did to me.

Maybe you should read what you wrote and pretend someone else sent it to you.

The people on these sites are looking for specific information for there box! they don't need the forums cluttered with questions, that if one had read they would have known.

My point exactly - put the information with the files, avoid the questions, save time.

Sometimes you need to visit several forums before you find the answer your looking for.

Been there, done that. Just a lot of random details, not well collected.

Read the following posting and tell me that you would be confident to load it on your unit (assuming that you had one of these):

http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...-bin-file.html

Now having seen it, can you tell me which one it is (of three) & what it does for you?

[majestik]

Originally Posted by mtinmwv

Somehow I feel that the message here has been lost in the details. The best example of what I am trying to eliminate or avoid is shown by the following post:

http://www.aaafta.com/forum/viewsat-...-bin-file.html

If you look at this post it tells you only one thing: the filename (link). The rest of the comments can be deduced from the path and title.

First i'de like to tell you, do not be offended by anyone's post...
No one here (as experienced as they might think they are) is a perfect tech.
Everyone learns new things every day.

Second, your message was and still is very clear, details to go along with files, very important, i agree.

As per the given example, just like with ANY SOFTWARE DOWNLOAD, i recommend going to the manufacturer directly for the latest firmware.

1. Only the manufacturer of your box can guaranty the validity of the file (unmodified)
2. Only the manufacturer can provide the latest version of the file.

Just like sites such as c-net, download.com etc...
You can find software there, but the latest versions will be posted on the software manufacturer's website.

These "manufacturer" files posted here are for people who just need a quick "virgin" factory file for restoration purposes, no one uses the factory virgin files for any reason other than to bring the unit to manufacturer defaults for selling the unit or sending it for repair, otherwise you won't be here looking for bin files, now would you?.. lol

[woodcreeker]

Wow guys...

We try to document as much information as we can about a file. Most files are what they are. (i.e. a factory file). Factory files are the software that came with the FTA unit. Sometimes the manufacturers change their factory file versions, and we also give that version number as well, if applicable.

Most files are "just there" and are directed to by Moderators when problems crop up by a user, we direct them to the files they need to solve their problems. They are NOT there for anyone to just download and install. Try to remember mtinmwv that these 3rd party software bin files do not come with any instructions or manuals. Everything has to simply be figured out by using them. The ECMs that we have been inundated with lately has caused a bit of chaos in the documentation department, and in the bin department as well.

NOTE - All factory files are available for download at the manufacturers site. Their documentation of the files is even more lacking than what we have here.

So, if you experience a problem, a Moderator will direct you to download and use whatever file you need to repair the situation you are in. Usually, you just put the latest bin file for your receiver, and that is it. Then you just need to setup satellites and scan channels. Not much to it, really. No need to document all that, all that information is in everyones Manual they got with their receivers.

Pretty much the only documentation you are going to get on any particular bin file is reading user feedback in your forum for your receiver model.

If you cannot find information about particular bins, how they are working, or ways to set something up, or even ways to get something running you thought should be, feel free to ask a question here. That is why we are here, and went to all the trouble of putting up this forum!

Hope this helps !!

[mtinmwv]

Originally Posted by woodcreeker

Wow guys...
...
We try to document as much information as we can about a file.
If you cannot find information about particular bins, how they are working, or ways to set something up, or even ways to get something running you thought should be, feel free to ask a question here. That is why we are here, and went to all the trouble of putting up this forum!

Hope this helps !!

Ok - I'm done. Close & bury this thread. It was a waste of time an energy that has added nothing good for anyone. I will just read. I only wish someone would read what I posted and not just respond to to the superficial text. READ the links I posted, they say more than I am able to do.

Lastly, I think I understand your points about reading. It is better for the poster not to spend a few minutes adding more information since the thousands reading can dig it out somewhere else in less than ten minutes or post a question that the moderator has to answer again. A definite time saver.

So much for posting suggestions. I am going to burn my cycles elsewhere.

bye.